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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Jun 19, 2007 4:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: The Studio.

Even Jerry and the rest of the band recognized that they couldn't carry the live stuff indoors, that it just didn't translate. I think most would agree.

BUT. Does that mean that their studio work sucked? American Beauty, Workingman's, Wake of the Flood, Mars Hotel, Blues For Allah, Terrapin? The first Jerry solo album?

I thought they all sucked when they came out, a betrayal to the experience of the live show. Then at about Shakedown Street I convinced myself that there was no redeeming quality to the studio work at all. By Go To Heaven, it was an undisputable truth.

Only in retrospect can I admit the error of my ways. Is there any question that Workingman's and American Beauty are two of the most pivotal and well recorded albums of American music in the 20th century?

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jun 20, 2007 9:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

Yes, actually- I think it's quite debatable. I love the Dead, and AB and WD are unquestionably THEIR best and most pivotal recordings, but when you expand the field to include "American music" and "20th century"…. there's plenty of room to question that.

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Jun 19, 2007 5:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

First l.p. captured the quintessential sound and experience of 1967. It was cut "live" in the studio. Great l.p. A-

Anthem--made up of live tracks. The post verses Alligator is from 2-14-68, and the Caution comes from 2 other dates. A-

Aoxomoxoa--first real "studio" effort. Great sounds--really acidic. And on the Rhino reissue, we hear them playing live in the studio, jamming away as if they were at the Matrix. A

Live Dead. Duh. . . . . A+

Workingman's and American Beauty--so exquisite. There are few studio l.p.s that can compete. A and A+++ respectively

Wake of the Flood--ditto. A

Mars Hotel--a little overproduced and slick; the songs by and large aren't as good--with some notable exceptions. But the honesty and purity of the proceeding three aren't there.

B/B+

Europe '72--a classic hybrid between live tracks and overdubs. Gorgeous. A+

Blues for Allah--a mixed bag with some stunning moments. Well rehearsed and not as slick as Mars Hotel. A-

Terripin. Too slick and disco. I just don't like it much. C+

Shakedown. Ditto C+

In the Dark-- basic tracks live; nicer sound. B-

Built to Last. C-

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Poster: rockinrob Date: Jun 20, 2007 8:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

Hang on a minute GOP, just wait a minute, Terrapin = Disco?????? I'm really sorry but I never got any Disco feeling from any song on Terapin. Shakedown Street maybe, sorta, with the right chemical influence, I could kinda see, but I don't get Terapin as Disco. Granted it's a lot more on the pop side than rock-n-roll. I guess this is one of the things that keeps me comming back here is reading everyone's ideas and opinions, and of course all of the music...

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Poster: patkelley Date: Jun 19, 2007 5:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

I mostly agree with you (not that you should care) except for Terrapin. You almost have to give Terrapin an A for the Terrapin Suite itself. Oddly enough, I listened to Built to Last on my drive home today (pure coincidence) and I got into a bunch of the songs. Haven't heard it in years and I really enjoyed Foolish, Built to Last and Victim. The Brent songs are good, but very 80s-sounding. I also think that Blues for Allah is a really really interesting group of songs-- very unique, organic approach to a CD (album?).

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Jun 19, 2007 6:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

The Terrapin suite is unique but overblown. And the Olson hatchet job!

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Poster: acetboy Date: Jun 19, 2007 11:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

.

This post was modified by acetboy on 2008-05-30 01:50:18

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2007-06-19 18:50:11

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Poster: high flow Date: Jun 19, 2007 5:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

Hi Earl - Yeah, I am one to talk....I own them all!

Most are really good....some just fall short. However, there are few album versions I'd choose over a chunky live one....so.....

For acts like Hornsby and Los Lobos albums are an opportunity to introduce their audience to new stuff they are trying. These bands usually hit the mark w/ interesting albums that reach beyond or go outside their past works...

The Dead tried...I wouldn't say they failed but, they did not triumph either. Perhaps the studio stuff is just overshadowed and dwarfed by the monstrous live performances....

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 19, 2007 7:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

[Sorry, snit to follow...]

Earl--were you serious? Say it ain't so! In my limited experience, Workingman's and Beauty were hailed by one and all as masterpieces the moment they came out...many in the San Fran scene that had been champions of Moby Grape and the others were won over by those two albums, especially given how the other bands had faded...

I would daresay that those two albums are by far and away my fist choice to introduce anyone to the DEAD, well above any of the best live recordings.

Just one man's view...

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Jun 19, 2007 7:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

At the time AB and Workingman's came out, I was deeply into some fairly heavy guitar slingers like Leslie West, Joe Walsh, Hendrix, bands like Cactus, even saw Ozzie on his first US tour. Workingman's and AB was pussy music to me at the time, just didn't rock.

When the Allman Brothers Live at the Fillmore East and Skullfuck came out, I was converted, got on the bus. I still believe there is a very real sonic similarity between those two records, which was also true with Eat a Peach & Europe 72. They seemed to go together like beer and valiums. Yum Yum.

I still had misgivings about the Dead studio stuff. It wasn't really until a long relationship with Europe 72 (and Eat a Peach)that I started to find value in not only those two records but the first Garcia LP.

25 years later I spent time at home with my dying mother, who had an aversion complex about the Dead. Nevertheless, she found herself on the bus after listening to American Beauty and WOTF. So I tend to agree that the early studio records are "the key to the highway" when putting someone in touch with Dead music.

To this day, I would define the core of my music collection as the Allman Bros. Live at The Fillmore, Eat a Peach, Skullfuck, Europe 72 and the quadruple threat of Workingman's, American Beauty, Wake of the Flood, and Garcia. My desert island eight pack.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 19, 2007 8:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

Read you loud and clear, Earl. My mis-read of your post was based on my thought that you had come around, but not as entirely as your last lines indicated (just re-read it).

Whewww...

Anyhow, I know very well the feeling how time can alter our appreciation of any number of things, and find it so cool that your experiences with loved ones contributed to your renewed respect and love of those two gems...

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Poster: tree-ap Date: Jun 20, 2007 6:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

Yea man---beer & valium w/a Percocet chaser...
I've always been a fan of ALL of their studio work. Now they could certainly stretch their legs on stage with most songs, but some just didn't, or couldn't work out too well. Rosemary & What's Become Of The Baby for example. Some of you have included their live releases, Live Dead & Europe '72, but remember that these were live & not done in the studio. While Europe '72 apparently had "some work done to it", to my ears it's their best overall "live" album, even above Live Dead---Maybe by a millionth of a notch, but above it just the same. Notice how Steppin' Out doesn't sound like Europe '72?

Another album that's been blasted by some is Terrapin Station, and the title song, as being too disco. Well, even KISS had their disco album Dynasty, and I enjoy that one as well. I throughly enjoy Terrapin Station as a song, even the orchestral arrangements. To me it's, for lack of a better term, a "heavenly" song. It has this ethereal quality that is represented well by the entire song. It's something I don't think they were able to quite capture the same way when playing it live. Don't get me wrong, there some very strong performances of it out there, but there's something about the studio version that I enjoy at least a billionth of a notch more than any live performance.

Someone mentioned earlier about If I Had The World To Give. This to me is one of Garcia's defining songs, that was unfortunately only played a few times. The lyrics portray to me what he was all about. Here's a link to the Winterland show after Egypt that includes what as far as I'm concerned is the BEST performance of the song, live or studio:

http://www.archive.org/details/gd78-10-17.sbd.unknown.1078.sbeok.shnf

I'll leave it at this as far as my arguments for, or against studio albums goes, something I've said before---we all hear something different, eventhough we're listening to the exact same notes/songs being played.

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Poster: cush212 Date: Jun 19, 2007 7:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

Moby Grape used to put on a HELL of a show!!! Largely forgotten now though... There is however a Moby Grape compilation cd that came out recently...

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jun 19, 2007 7:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

i'm going to have to agree with you there Tell - i would start there too

never mind they are the two finest of the bands and two very fine recordings to boot

wake might come next to pull the uninitiated into the next level

but you are right on Mr Tell

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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Jun 19, 2007 5:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

I think American Beauty is among the best albums ever recorded. It's a vocal album though, and I don't think the band had the discipline to get the tunes right on stage (ex Sugar Mag obviously). I love Aoxomoxoa and Jerry's first album as well. Simply brilliant writing on both. Lennonesque in my opinion. Unbroken Chain from Mars Hotel is also great work imo.

Other than that, I don't keep much studio Dead in the rotation.

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Poster: Max Chorak Date: Jun 19, 2007 6:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

Shakedown St. ... C+?



..


=)

All subjective I suppose

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Jun 20, 2007 4:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

Shakedown Street doesn't have the great tunes. S.Street itself is much better live. France is okay, but Fluff. If I had the World to Give i syrupy. All New Minglewood is too clean and perfect. Play the original Dead version. Etc. C+.

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Poster: walterbedingfield415 Date: Jun 19, 2007 8:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

"Is there any question that Workingman's and American Beauty are two of the most pivotal and well recorded albums of American music in the 20th century?"


I love the dead as much or more than the next guy but....thats a hell of a statement. What about "Kind Of Blue","Bitches Brew","nevermind","Pet Sounds","Highway 61 revisited","blood on the Tracks"or even "straight outta Compton"?

This post was modified by walterbedingfield415 on 2007-06-20 03:28:12

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Poster: BryanE Date: Jun 20, 2007 9:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

Walter,
Nothing to do with the GD, but you wouldn't happen to be related to Natasha, would you?

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Poster: walterbedingfield415 Date: Jun 20, 2007 6:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

yes...very distantly.....we are 3rd( or maybe 3 times removed, could never figure out the diff.) cousins or something like that...the only reason I know is that I have family that lives in London and they figured it out somehow....never met her or daniel.

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Poster: BryanE Date: Jun 21, 2007 5:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

Sorry, forgot about Daniel. My 10-year-old daughter clued me into Unwritten. Good song. Thanks for the reply.

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Poster: BryanE Date: Jun 19, 2007 6:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Studio.

My favorite studio album: Mars Hotel.

The most blown-away I ever was upon first listening of a studio album: Blues For Allah.

Aoxomoxoa: sparklingly psychedelic-my pupils dilate just listening to it.

Workingman's Dead/American Beauty: Smithsonian worthy.

How 'bout that first album? Not great technically, musically primitive, but a lot of fun and just as high of an energy level as any studio work they ever did.

The day after my first show, which was the first time I ever listened to them at all beyond Truckin's rare radio airplay (back before "classic rock" glutted the airwaves), I went and bought a used copy of Wake Of The Flood, so I have a special place in my heart for that one. And even though they are roundly maligned, I have always gotten enjoyment from Terrapin Station, Shakedown Street, and Go To Heaven.

In The Dark: clean, bright sound (Bright sound on In The Dark? Go figure) and finally a hit record.

Built To Last: I remember being a little overwhelmed by its Brent-heavy song selection, but Foolish Heart remains, to me, one of their finest moments in the studio.




I feel like George Harrison at the Concert for Bangladesh, only I haven't forgotten Billy Preston-I've forgotten Anthem Of The Sun! Crackling with electricity and I think they deserve a lot of credit for reproducing the live experience on that record as well or better than any other.

This post was modified by BryanE on 2007-06-20 01:38:35